Yankale _wrote_ the "Hike the Land of Israel" book, therefore he definitely has an interest in promoting it, as you say, heavily.  I personally feel that the book is a bit annoying itself, with a condescending tone and frequent references to the Welsh language.  If the Hebrew book is for families and day hikers, then HtLoI is written for hikers with unlimited resources for lodgings at the author's pre-selected list of locations.  As to the data book, I am similarly unclear what the future of that document is.

ashen yashen wrote    Yankale _wrote_ the "Hike the Land of Israel" book, therefore he definitely has an interest in promoting it, as you say, heavily.  I personally feel that the book is a bit annoying itself, with a condescending tone and frequent references to the Welsh language.  If the Hebrew book is for families and day hikers, then HtLoI is written for hikers with unlimited resources for lodgings at the author's pre-selected list of locations.  As to the data book, I am similarly unclear what the future of that document is.

Two commets ashen yashen: When Hike the Land of Israel was written there was only a limited number of trail angels and only a few of them agreed to be listed in the guide, and they  are all listed in the guide. Naturally you can camp out too. The limited number did not provide a reasonable solution even for students. However there are  people who prefer to sleep in a B&B. The list of B&B contains only places which are very close to the trail.

Since 2008 the number of trail angels has more than trippled. About 3 months ago I have translated the full Hebrew list of Trail Angels into English and it is available here for everyone. Another important list is this one: Water in the Negev desert

Enjoy.

ed wrote   Thank you for the explanations.  ....I haven't seen HLI so I can't comment on the content, but based on its weight (about 6 times heavier than a guide book for the longer AT) and price (about 8 times more expensive than one for the AT) it is safe to say it is NOT what I would consider ideal.  (Although if it is all that is available I will obviously need to buy and use it.)  While having a hebrew-english glossary of trail terms would be nice (don't know if it has that or not) I really don't need to shelp a guide to the Welsh language thru the desert of  Israel.    I have no problem with the idea that HLI didn't have a complete list of places to stay when it was published and then updated that on the web.  Every reputable trail book I know of has a website with updates and corrections.  In fact I would not buy a trail guide in which the auther or publisher was not doing web updates.

1. Go here and look for a sample map from the guide. There are 66 topo maps (1:50,000) in the guide. If you have to buy the Hebrew maps for the trail they cost NIS 900 ($241) discouted, there are 14 maps to buy each weighs 150 grams (~5 oz). So $64 is an exellent deal and light weight :-)

2. Welsh language: This was quite a nasty comment from Ashen Yashen .  There are two maybe three proverbs in Welsh in the guide with a translation into modern English for those who don't speak Welsh...  

3. Guide updates with maps are here  my friend

4. An updated list of trail Angles is here

5. Where to cache water in the desert is here

6. Hebrew English glossary is on page 13 of the guide.

The link for updates is provided in the guide and on this forum too and the info. is continuosly updated.

Hey, guys.

I've begun updating the information in the FAQ section to better represent the current state of things.

Regarding the data book/guide book issue, I don't think there's any such thing as the perfect guide to any trail, because every hiker sees the trail, and the whole world, through his/her own unique perspective. Benton MacKaye, the founder of the Appalachian Trail, understood this, I think, when he said, "Hike your own hike." That has become a mantra among thru-hikers on the AT, and I think the same idea is true of INT hikers as well. And because everyone hikes his/her own hike, no single guidebook will be perfect for everyone.

So while not everyone will like Yankale's guide, the fact is that his work has filled a major void. Until his book, there really were no good resources for non-Hebrew-speakers interested in the INT. Trash it all you want, but he stepped up and did what no one else had done. And I think anyone coming from outside Israel to hike the INT should buy it.

That said, I definitely understand what Ed is saying about preferring to carry something smaller and simpler. I've used databooks for other trails, and I like the way they allow me to experience the trail a little more through my own eyes, and offer only the information that is absolutely necessary. I still think an English-language databook needs to be created, not as a replacement for Yankale's book, but as something lighter that can be carried on the trail in case someone prefers leaving the book at home.

Ed, I'm curious -- if we were to make a databook available to you prior to your hike, would you consider carrying it with you and helping us update it and make it accurate? In any case, I don't think we'll have anything ready before your hike that should be used as a stand-alone guide. I would carry Yankale's book if I were you. But if you didn't mind carrying a few extra sheets of paper, you could attempt to use the beta version of our databook most of the time. If you found it inaccurate, you could note where a change needed to occur. And if you ran into any real difficulty, Yankale's guidebook would likely solve your problem.

You might think about it, although this idea actually adds even more weight to your pack than simply carrying HLI :) So if you're not up for it, I definitely understand!

Don't get me wrong: I am continuosly getting comments from hikers who've read the guide and used it. The amount of hikers on the INT does not justify putting and effort for two guides, at least not for the time being. I like what you wrote above :

" In fact whenever I hike and find errors, omissions or changes, I  both email the author and post the correction on relevant forums pertaining to that trail.  Most often it isn't that the author made a mistake as much as things having changed.  I have found others doing this invaluable when I plan a hike, so I return the favor for others who will be following behind me. "

I will be glad to read your comments here after you've seen the guide.  The second edition will be published in 2011 and it will be lighter, probably 1 pound or less. In order to make it ultralight, I'll have to leave a hike descripion only in one direction which is not an option.

[QUOTE]Yankale wrote
 

Just wanted to share with you some aspects of the INT guide writing process. The INT offers more than most other long trails in the world: The Galilee area mountains, pilgrimage sites in the area of Kinneret (Sea of Galilee), Mt. Tavor, Nazareth, the mediterranean shore, ancient Caesarea, Tel Aviv - an exciting city, Judean montains, Jerusalem and what it offfers to all religions and a unique 250 miles long hiking experience in the Negev desert. 

There are douzens of archaelogical sites that you hike in or nearby, in two places you actually hike on an ancient Roman road, unique geology in the desert in the form of three erosion craters and much more. When writing the guide it is imppossible to write about Caesarea something like: 1.5 miles south of the Roman qaueduct (an exciting site too) turn left at the gates of Caesarea and continue east..." You have to write a line maybe two about this great ancient city with a little info. like opening hours. 

[/quote]

Actually it is very possible to just have navigation data and not mention whether the road you are walking on was built last year or last millennium.    The issue is whether it would be in the readers best interest to include it or not.  And this is not just an issue for the INT.  More than just occasionally similar discussions go on regarding the inclusion or non-inclusion of things into guides for the AT.  BTW entire books have been written on the events that occured at Harpers Ferry.  From most of the AT guides you can generally get the sense that something important happened at Harpers Ferry during the Civil War and if you are interested you ought spend some time at the National Park.  However, considerable more ink is expended telling hikers where they can do their laundry, buy pizza or find a cheap place to sleep than on the historical nature of that battlefield town. 

And BTW I am not so firmly in the camp of non-inclusion to pointing out important sites along the way.  By way of example.  I know Yad Vashem is not on the INT.  But lets pretend the INT pass by it.  I would want to know it was there, that it was the Holocaust Memorial, its hours, admission cost and phone number.  And that is it.  I don't need a three page summary of this history of the Shoah .  Odd are most of what you would include in those three pages would either already be known by the reader OR they would learn by reading the various plaques inside.  If you feel so compelled that you must provide the background, my advice would be to simply have it in another section that could easily be ripped out and allow me an other just to have the basic info. I do not know how accommodating your book is to that as it is currently written.  But my recommendation is that it ought be.  The other factor might be the availablity of English languague info locally.  There is no reason to provide the reader with info about an archaelogical site when they can read the same thing off the plaque.  However, if the plaque is only in Hebrew, it might make sense to include it in the English guide but not the Hebrew one (as the users of that guide can presumably read the plaque)

[quote]

The guide is written for everyone: Thru hikers, section hikers, day hikers,

[/quote]

I might be missing something....but section hikers?   I even wonder about the day hikers.

The AT has a large number of section hikers.  And a fair number of international hikers.  I have yet to know of a single international section hiker.  How many people do you expect are going to attempt to hike the entire trail in one week segments that can't read Hebrew?  Fly to Israel hike for a week, fly home.  Repeat for 8 year until you finish the trail?  Section hiking makes sense if you live in Tel Aviv, not so much if you live in London or NYC.  And if you live in Tel Aviv you would be buying a book written in Hebrew.  I can see the INT getting a fair amount of day hiker traffic from non-Hebrew speaking tourist to Israel.  However, I wonder how many are really going to be willing to spend $54 on a book for one day hike, particularly those who are doing it as part of an organized group.  I think for the most part your target audience is the thru hiker.    

But even in writing for them the only thing they need that a thru hiker doesn't is directions to various points on the trail by public transportation or car and parking info.  In total they need less info than the thru hiker as they don't care about resupply or doing laundry.  My advice...put the parking and other stuff in a section that the thru hiker can rip out and discard.    

[quote]

 We'll try to provide a different binding in the next edition. 

[/quote]

I am willing to bet this is where you can save the most weight.  I don't know how the book is structure right now. But the weight of the book is the paper.  The solution might not be less pages, but paper that weighs less. I know that color maps need heavier paper than text requires.  I don't know if you are using the heavier glossy paper throughout or just for the maps.  (I do know of guides that use it through out, they are too heavy).  My advice have a map section using the heavier paper (but still the lightest paper that can handle color printing) and print the rest of the book on the lightest paper that you can (such as the tissue thin paper my JPS Bible is printed on)  For most people the guide is disposable  (that is actually a good thing for the author more updates, more sales, more money ) there is no reason to print it on paper that will last 20 years when the info on the paper is gonna be useless in 3.   

Also make the binding such that it won't be too hard to rip out the pages without ripping the actual pages. 

I hope you find the above helpful.

A couple of things:

First: Ed, I'm familiar with the kind of databook you're looking for. As a matter of fact, the English sample page that's posted on the main website is based on the Thru-Hiker's Guide to the Applachian Trail, originally written by Dan "Wingfoot" Bruce. Dan contacted me several years ago with questions about the INT and mailed me a copy of his book. I like the format he used, and I think something similar for the INT would be great. If possible, I'd like to talk with you more about beta-testing a databook, and maybe send you some files. Would you mind sending me an e-mail at scrabineau at hotmail dot com?

Second: Yankale and Ed are both raising great points -- this is a great thread. I can definitely appreciate Yankale's position now much more than I could a year ago, because my doctoral research involves studying various views on Israel as espoused in guidebooks, tour itineraries, travel literature, etc. While every guidebook author has to make decisions on what to include and what to leave out, I think it's particularly hard for the INT. Just looking at the history of different parts of the trail, there are so many stories to tell: some parts follow old Nabatean routes, Roman roads, military patrol roads, paved streets, old paths between villages, and so on. Creating an informative guide that says enough, but not too much, would be a tremendous challenge. I have much appreciation for the job Yankale has set out to accomplish, and I'm sure future editions will take positive criticism (like Ed's) into account.

Third: Yankale, I know the guidebook takes up a lot of time, but have you considered writing a book that could tell the stories you had to leave out of the guidebook? Like, a book not designed for hikers to carry, but rather a book that is free to go into greater detail about the interesting sites along the INT? I know, I know -- such a book could fill a whole library. But I think something like that, someday, would be great.

It is a good thread. It may have started off a little negative with the Welsh comments, but I think we are all seeking the same thing making the INT more accessible to the international community, by providing good English language information. 

Thank you, Yankale both for putting together the guide and for answering the various questions I have posted.  Also first editions are always a bit rough.   I think some of the AT guides are on their 40th or 50th edition, things improve overtime with good feedback.   

And Shay is absolutely right about different folks have different needs and wants in guidebook.  And let me be perfectly clear: I never said that I wouldn't want to read a 1.2lb book about the INT, just that I don't want to carry a 1.2lb book thru the desert.  I don't know if they still sell them, but at one time there was  6-8 volumes dedicated to the AT each discussing a section of the trail.  Great reads with fascinating facts and background about the trail, detailed information about the plants and animals in that section, the geology, history etc.  Certainly something worth reading before going hiking.  (I read them in the library.)  But not something I would even consider carrying from Georgia to Maine. I agree with Shay additional books about the INT providing more details about the various sites would be great, not to shelp across the desert but to be read before hand or even by people who will never hike the INT.  I will add Judy Pex's book to my reading list.   Ideally I will read Yankale's book and Pex's book and several others before hiking...but carry Shay's.

Shay, I thought your guide's format looked very familiar.  Another popular AT guide is this one if you want a second format to compare it to....http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm   IIRC, it provides more detail than Wingfoots book does and is a little bit heavier, (but don't hold me to that)   I think in total there are five databooks regarding the AT, all basically containing mostly of the same info, but all structured slightly different, all weighing close to the same, but weight does vary some from to the other.  Which one is the best......that is a matter of endless debate.  As is what changes ought be made to each one. (My reason for providing this one to you is not to say it is better than the others, it is just the only one that is online for free, so if you are looking for a second model.  I actually think it has quite a bit of junk that just adds needless weight.)  

I can't really can't do any beta testing a continant away.  But if you would like me to look at your files and tell you if I like the structure...sure. ed01420@yahoo.com

Yankale you are absolutely correct that my comments are being made from an uniformed position and that I could make much better comments after reading your book and hiking the trail, I preface all my comments with...this is what I want in a guidebook....I really don't know how much of it you are already doing and how much you are not doing.  The only thing I do know is your book is heavier and more expensive than its American counterparts.    

Are all the topo maps needed to hike the trail? 

(My standard disclaimer:  my comments are based purely on speculations based on hiking in the USA.)

Most people hike the AT w/o maps.  And those that do carry maps use them primarily for navigating off of the trail. (e.g. taking a side trail into a town that goes near the trail but does not cross the trail.)  Some folks carry a road map for that purpose that you would be at a scale the equivalent of having most of Israel on a single map.  OTOH, it is impossible to hike the CDT w/o maps.  But the CDT is not a trail....it is a corridor and is not blazed.  Based solely on looking at pictures of people hiking the INT -- my speculation would be that maps are unnecessary in the north, but might be required/recommended for the desert. 

So exactly how much navigating is required?  You mention elsewhere a compass is "optional."   If the trail is well blazed than both the map and compass would be optional.  If it is poorly blazed than both would be required.  I can't fathom a situation where a map would be required, but a compass not be needed.

Read your email.  Agree with you regarding the timing of the discussion.  

Couple of thoughts.....

If the maps are optional (and maybe even if not)...two books instead of one....$15 for a guide book.  $40 for an atlas. Few reasons...the optimal size for a guide book is about 8 cm by about 13 cm.  Fits in your pocket, but too small for a map.  Ideal size for an atlas/map is around 40 cms+, too oversized for a guide.   Less problems with needing to mix and match paper types as the guide is black and white, the atlas is in color.

GPS data --- I don't know if this is in SPNI's long term plans or not.  (It should be as they have the stated goal of being the Israeli equivalent of the AT.) For the AT you can download a file into your GPS and use that to navigate the trail.  This is true for a lot of American trails.  Very few thru hikers  use a GPS on the AT, however, because it is just easier to follow the white blazes than anything else and the GPS just adds weight.  Plenty of day hikers bring GPS, but that is mostly cause they want to play with a  toy.  However, Mike Hanson is currently thru hiking the trail using a GPS.  He is completely a blind and is attempting to be the first blind person to hike it without a guide.  (Two other blind people have hiked it..both with guide dogs.) 

Bidirectional directions....IMHO totally unnecessary.  While it is slightly easier to follow a guide written designed for the order you are traveling...a well written databook is almost as easy to read up as it is to read down. Most AT guides are written northbound because 75%-80% of thru hikers hike that direction.  I have hiked "backwards" to the guide book I was using on several occasions.  First time it took a little getting use to but...not really that long to get the hang of.  For me it is easier than getting use to reading Hebrew "backwards." 

While writing the second editon of the guide I enjoy very much reading the first one. I don't mean the trail description but rather some personal comments about my journey.

Well, as I mentioned earlier I was writing under the inluence of both my hike of the INT and a novel that I've completed a year earlier, and it shows in the guide's weight.

The second edition will be lighter, I hope to get down to ~ 450 grams /~1 pound or so .