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Sunday, February 05, 2012
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Considering buying a new pack for the next time I hike the INT, hopefully this coming summer. On the 2006 hike, I carried a GoLite Gust, which I liked, but is nearing the end of its usefulness. The pack was fine all throughout the hike, and its ultra-light weight (20 ounces when empty) was a major plus. It was durable, too, until we arrived back in Tel Aviv and were walking out the door of the Central Bus Station, and it caught on the door handle and ripped. Still haven't fixed it, but I've hiked a lot with it since then, and it's just getting tired overall.
So the question now is -- what to buy? I'm considering a Karrimor Sabre SF pack, which is British-made and designed to military specifications. It's fairly lightweight and can be ordered in various sizes. In my case, I think I'd err on the side of smallness, as I don't carry that much stuff anyway.
I'm open to suggestions/ideas, though. Anyone been researching different packs, particularly ones suited for deserts/hot climates? I'm looking for hydration system compatibility, durability, neutral colors, and a low price. Best of all worlds. Anyway, here's a picture of the Sabre:
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Hi Shay,
It's important to verify that the back area allows flow of air. Otherwise you'll be sweating too much.... |
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Agreed. The Sabre is designed for desert use, and it's also a lot cheaper than most packs you'll find at backpacking/outfitting stores, so I think it'll be a good deal. Maybe my wife will let me order one for my birthday... |
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| Shay wrote
Agreed. The Sabre is designed for desert use, and it's also a lot cheaper than most packs you'll find at backpacking/outfitting stores, so I think it'll be a good deal. Maybe my wife will let me order one for my birthday...
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When I was your age, actually much younger, my mom always told me: "We don't have enough money, that's why I always buy the best of anything... eventually it's cheaper..." |
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Excellent point, yankale, and I agree -- except when American-made backpacks are overpriced and overloaded with unnecessary zippers, straps, brand-name labels, gizmos, gadgets, and doohickeys. lol. I don't know if it's like this in Israel, but here in the States, there's a whole culture of people who never go backpacking, but it's important for them to carry the best name-brand gear.
As a result, the gear companies design their clothing to be worn on college campuses, not in the mountains; they design their packs to be put in the trunk of a car or an airport baggage check, not to be worn on a long trek. And they know that most of their customers are rich college kids whose parents pay for everything, so they slap a fat price tag on it, too. So you have to be careful when buying. Is it designed for the trail, or for the street?
I'm curious -- is it the same way in Israel? Seems like the "backpacking culture" in Israel consists mainly of real backpackers, but I could be wrong.
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It's the same here about everything. Only when you know what you need you can buy the right stuff. Otherwise you end up buying a backpack with a built in GPS. Hmmmm...not a bad idea.... |
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Shalom, guys. I'm also looking for a new backpack to take on the Trail. I'd love to hear comments from more experienced folk on the merits of external frame vs. internal frame vs. frameless (golite) packs. So far, I've ruled out Jansport bookbags... |
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Shalom, mytilus -- welcome to the forum!
My first pack was a hoss of an external frame -- recently I used it to carry a rubber raft down to the Rio Grande, if that tells you anything. I'm a big fan of its organizational qualities, and it seems that a lot of Israelis are, too. Great for heavy loads -- if you're up over 40 lbs. or so, it will handle the load better than anything else. Since everything is riding on a frame, you don't have to pay that much attention to how you load your pack; the weight distribution spreads out along the frame. They're cheap, too, compared to most internal-frames.
Then again, they're heavy (mine weighs about 7 lbs. when empty). And they're kind of overkill if you're carrying lightweight equipment. An internal frame is a happy medium for a lot of people because it's still pretty comfortable, and it can handle a decent-sized load. They're more expensive, but worth it for most people. I don't have a ton of experience with internal-frame packs. Some people aren't big fans because they usually consist of one giant bag, and if the thing you need is all the way at the bottom...well, you have to either dump it out or go digging.
Chase and I did our INT hike with frameless packs (we both had the GoLite Gust). The big advantage of those is that they're next to weightless (ours weighed 20 oz. when empty); the disadvantage is that they don't carry loads nearly as well as packs with frames. So you have to be careful about how much you put in -- 30 lbs. is the upper limit -- and how you distribute the weight inside the pack. If you don't do it right, those shoulder straps will be really painful by the end of the day.
Greg hated his frameless pack and switched out for a GoLite Adventure (that's what it's called, right, Greg?) while me and Chase kept the Gusts. Last week, Chase and I took a 14-mile hike in desert/mountain conditions with the Gusts, and I still loved mine; he doesn't like his much anymore because it bruises his hips. He's thinking of getting a different pack because he wants something that carries the weight better; I want a new one because I've beaten the tar out of mine.
Here's what it comes down to in the end, though: An external-frame pack requires the least amount of skill to use, so it's a good entry-level pack. An internal-frame pack requires a little more care and thought, but it's not too hard, either. A frameless pack requires a lot of attention to how it's packed, and I wouldn't recommend one to someone who isn't familiar with other types, or hasn't spent that much time backpacking.
There are lots of gear review sites that discuss the merits of different types. Internal-frame is definitely en vogue, but don't let that influence you too much. See what you think, and let us know what you decide! |
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| Mytilus wrote
Shalom, guys. I'm also looking for a new backpack to take on the Trail. I'd love to hear comments from more experienced folk on the merits of external frame vs. internal frame vs. frameless (golite) packs. So far, I've ruled out Jansport bookbags...
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When I hiked the trail I went with a more medium sized internal frame pack. I did some practice with a frameless pack and it wasn't comfortable for me and did not carry the weight well. I took a golite perspective on my INT hike (since discontinued). It had a frame sheet and weighed 3lb. 3 oz. It did an admirable job. However, I have heavier packs that carry the load so well that it was less strain on my body. I am considering taking something like this on my next hike.
I would suggest to try out as many as you can. Borrow packs from friends. Take your gear into the store and load up the pack and walk around. The more you try the better you will have a feel for what you need. You have to do what feels best for you. Comfort is supreme here. Hope this some help.
GC |
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Thanks for all the advice!
Does anyone know the theory behind designing/choosing a good back? Am I correct that most of the weight should be carried on the hips with a minimum on the shoulders? Also, what are your opinions on where to put the heaviest gear? Towards the top or bottom of the pack? |
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http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/id-618.html
Take a look at the above link -- good article. Not saying you're a dummy; just saying it's a good article. lol. |
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Yeah, I've been using the GoLite Gust for the last couple of years, and i think i'm ready for a pack with a frame again. I mean, I'm all for a pack not having extra (and useless) weight, but when you go overboard, the pack just gets uncomfortable (like the fact that the hipbelt on the Gust is literally no thicker or wider than a seatbelt strap). Like Shay mentioned, I ALWAYS have big bruises after a long hike. Also, if you really pull hard on the straps, they will burst open because they are cheap and small.
To be fair, i did beat the crap out of it in on the INT, and sometimes loaded it with more weight than its designed for, and it did hold up amazingly well. The one thing that i like about it is that you can fit huge things in it because it is just one big tube with no dividers or compartments (we fit a 3-person rubber raft into a Gust).
But yeah, i'm open to suggestions as to what internal/external frame packs are out there. |
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So I'm gathering on here that I will need a backpack for the trail....
Seriously, Shay - it seems like you're saying that for someone like me, with extremely limited backpacking experience, an external frame may be the way to go? I'm usually somewhat of an over-packer, so I think the stability of that sounds like the best fit for me...but I'd love to try out some of yours or Chase's to get a feel for the different builds.
By the way, hi everybody. I need to jump on someone's computer sometime to get a picture of me on here, but anyway, the website looks good - great logo. |
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| Andrew wrote
it seems like you're saying that for someone like me, with extremely limited backpacking experience, an external frame may be the way to go? I'm usually somewhat of an over-packer, so I think the stability of that sounds like the best fit for me...but I'd love to try out some of yours or Chase's to get a feel for the different builds.
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I would not go with an external frame pack. Really there are three types of packs. External frame, internal frame, and rucksack (no frame). Hardly anybody hikes with externals anymore. In my humble opinion, an internal is a better choice for a starter. You may want to see if anybody has some old Backpacker Magazine Gear guides. They give stats on dozen of packs. Usually they come out around March. Backpacking Light also has a gear guide online. You will want to make sure you measure your torso to get an accurate fit. |
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Yeah, I agree with Greg. I'd go with an internal frame, and then take plenty of practice hikes until you feel like you know it really well. External-frame packs require the least amount of skill (that's why Boy Scout troops usually have them on hand for beginning hikers), but by the time you get to the INT, you'll be more skilled than that, anyway.
You can read Backpacker magazine for free at Borders -- every month they have at least a few reviews, and it's good to familiarize yourself with the gear overall. You can also go to Backwoods and they'll let you try on different packs to see how they feel. |
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Here's another intriguing option. It's the REI Jet. It's a frameless pack, like the Gust, so you have to use a sleeping pad or something similar to give it its shape. As mentioned earlier, for some reason, I can roll with that just fine.
Pros:
- It only weighs 24 oz. when empty
- It has side mesh pockets and bungees on the outside so you can carry tarps, bottles, etc. more easily
- It has substantial padding in the shoulder straps and hip belt
- Hydration system-compatible, polyurethane-coated
- It only costs $55.00.
Cons:
- It's small -- only 30 liters. My Gust is a 60-liter pack, but on the INT, it was never full. Most of the time, I inflated my extra Platypus bags to help fill space. The question is whether it's too small; it very well may be. But some of my stuff (tarp, groundsheet) is stuff I'd rather keep on the outside, anyway.
- In a pinch, it might not be able to handle heavy loads.
Anyway, if you guys are still looking into backpacks, here is a link to REI, a great online retailer. |
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About a month ago, I bought a Kelty Big Bend 5000. Not a bad pack overall. Actually, it felt pretty sturdy, but it had a lot of pockets, extra padding, extra hooks, and a thicker frame, making it weigh over 5 lbs. I don't think it's available online - I think it's Kelty's lower end line, available at retail places -- I bought mine at Academy Sports and Outdoors. This pack turned out to be slightly too small for me, so with no other size options available, I returned it.
After a little more research, I settled on the Osprey Aether 60.
It's medium-sized and lightweight, but still has the stability of an internal frame (lighter and more flexible than the Big Bend). It lacks some features of its big brother, the 70 - namely another zipper for the sleeping bag compartment and a detachable hood, but it's great for what I need. It's even possible to attach a foam sleeping pad to it horizontally or vertically. The belt isn't overly padded, but it's designed to ergonomically hug your hip bones, and I've had no soreness, even after wearing it half a day. After a few test hikes, I'm convinced it's a keeper.
I saved 50 bucks by ordering it online and then a local Backwoods was kind enough to swap out the large hip belt for a medium one. I'm sure the cash I dropped on other supplies made the swap worth their while. :) |
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Hey guys!
I am new to this forum (but have been watching this site for a long time). My fiancée and I are going to do a through hike for our honeymoon Sept-Nov 09.
I have used the previous version of the REI 30L pack with great satisfaction. I bought it in 1998 for $45, and hiked with it all the time, even on a lot of 10 day hikes (some in rainforest where much more protective gear is required). I finally retired it last year. It would only be of use to minimalists for sure. When it was at it's fullest (full of food and water), it weighed only 20lb. I acquired a lot of my load lightening skills from Ray Jardine. Even though this guy is a minimalist nut, you can learn a lot from his tips: www.rayjardine.com
In regards to the first pack mentioned (the British pack), I spent a good dollar on a British PLCE BERGEN RUCKSACK four years ago and am sold out on it ( http://www.silvermans.co.uk/Silver/docs/topframe.htm ). It is an internal frame, and all black (there are a few other neutral colour choices). British Military packs are by far the best quality out there and they are an investment as you will have it as long as you live to hike. Admittedly, it has a huge capacity 125L (I use it as a pack for 2 people), but you can carry about 80L and still cinch it tight. I hiked the whole length of Wales in an unusually hot and humid summer and never once had a complaint with soreness (I also did Everest Base Camp with it a year ago). Even with 180lb in it felt great! The 60L version can expect the same great quality... I’ll be using it for sure in September. Well those are my few cents on that issue... |
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Sir:
You'll find various incarnations of Ray Jardine fans here, too, although most will agree that he is indeed a minimalist nut. My GoLite pack was designed by the guy, though, and so far it's held up well. I'm taking it this spring on my second INT hike, mainly because I didn't want to throw down the cash for a new one. Turned out I would have paid almost as much for shipping it to the US as I would have paid for the pack itself.
Cheers for the info on the packs, man. Welcome to the forum and keep us posted on your hike plans as the date gets nearer! |
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I just purchased a Six Moon Design pack, the Swift '10. 18 oz, and surprisingly fully-featured for that weight and price ($135). Frameless, with an internal pocket to receive the sleeping pad and turn it into a quasi-frame. Pockets on the hip belt, Dry-something-or-other fabric on the back panel (as opposed to the same material as the rest of the pack is made of), Dyneema fabric, side pockets for waterbottles, mesh in the back. Yay! |
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 | ed |
| 22 posts |
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I think my next pack is going to be one of these.....http://www.aarnusa.com/ . I have never tried one of them, but the concept behind them makes perfect sense.
As for UL frameless packs: To me they seem to have absolutely no place on the INT. They are designed to carry loads of 15-20lbs. It is imposible to got that light on the INT as you need to carry 15+lbs of water. Someone with a 10lb base weight on the AT can keep their packweight under 20lbs, but not someone on the INT. I think one of the most common mistakes people make when going UL is starting with the pack. Having a pack weight of 38lbs instead of 41lbs but with a bag designed to handle a 20lb load instead of one designed to handle 50lbs, is not going to make you hike better. I have seen too many people do exactly this as they strain to carry 35-45lbs with a frameless 2lb bag. Start by going UL in all other areas. If you can get your gear, food and water total (in pack, not counting hiking poles, clothes worn & the pack itself) under 20lbs...then buy a UL framelss pack. |
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I completely agree with Ed. Just the water in the desert is 12-15 pounds. |
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